Bob Bianchi appeared on CNN with Brooke Baldwin and Paul Callan to discuss the odd twists and turns of Rudy Giuliani’s comments to the media this weekend. His changing story about the Trump Tower Moscow and what the President and Michael Cohen were discussing is frankly strange and odd. Is he helping the President’s cause? We debate it today!
#Giuliani #Trump #MichaelCohen #TrumpTowerMoscow #Mueller #News
Rudy Giuliani’s Conflicting News Accounts Befuddling. Bianchi on CNN discusses
January 23rd, 2019
Brooke Baldwin: I’m not lying for the president, that is what Rudy Giuliani, personal attorney to president Trump, just told Dana Bash. After several days of baffling contradictory and hypothetical statements about his client and his ties to Russia. All of this has more than a few of us asking one key question, what the heck is he doing? Let’s rewind, last Wednesday Rudy Giuliani talks Chris Cuomo, where Giuliani pulled this one eighty on the all-important topic of collusion.
Rudy Giuliani: I never said there was no collusion between the campaign, or between people in the campaign I have no idea, I have not. I said the President of The United States, there’s not a single bit of evidence the President of The United States committed the only crime that could commit here. Conspired with the Russians to hack the DNC.
Brooke Baldwin: The problem is, Rudy Giuliani did say there was no collusion. And he kept talking because it’s a couple days later Robert Mueller’s office gave the White House a huge assist, publicly disputing this buzz feed article that claimed Trump told his former fixer to lie to Congress about the Trump Tower Moscow project. And again, the special counsel which hasn’t said a word about anything in two years decided to publicly knock down this report that had some calling for the President to be impeached. Now, after that you would think team Trump might just lay low, take the win. No not Rudy Giuliani, here he is again on CNN, this time with Jake Tapper.
Rudy Giuliani: If he had any discussions with them, they would be about the version of the events that Michael Cohen gave them, which they won’t believe was true. I believed it was true I still believe it may be true-
Jake Tapper: But you just acknowledged that President Trump might have talked to them about his testimony?
Rudy Giuliani: And so, what if he talked to them about it.
Brooke Baldwin: Hours later, Rudy Giuliani spoke with the New York Times and said Trump told him talks about the Moscow project work, in Trumps words, have been going on from the day I announced to the day I won. The next day re walked it back saying, his comments were hypothetical and not based on real conversations with the President. And that brings us to Rudy Giuliani’s conversation with The New Yorker where he declared the buzz feeds was false because, plot twist, there are tapes. You can read this exchange there on your screen, let me just throw the cliff notes version on you. How does Rudy Giuliani know the buzz feed reporting was wrong? Because he says he listened to the tapes. Wait, what tapes, the reporter asks him? Just kidding, I shouldn’t have said there were tapes. But Rudy says later there are tapes and I’ve listened to them, they just aren’t tapes about Trump Tower Moscow. Okay, got it? Kind of? Joining me now to try to make sense of all this Robert Bianchi, former head prosecutor in Morris County New Jersey, and CNN legal analyst Paul Callan. Gentleman, okay Rudy Giuliani, New Jersey, New York, all your ties for years and years. You know, a lot of people think of Rudy Giuliani this great mayor of New York City, you know, got the city through 9/11, wrote a book I remember reading there years ago on leadership, and now he’s the President’s lawyer, and is apparently on this clarification tour. What’s going on?
Robert Bianchi: You know Brooke, as a person who led a prosecutorial agency, we have such respect for prosecutors, and what Rudy Giuliani did when he was the United States Attorney. He put a lot of bad people in jail, he knows better than this. We would have expected him to be the pinnacle of lawyering consistent and clear statements so that the public understands what it is that he’s saying. And this is basculation and going back and forth and it is just so bizarre and peculiar, it’s hurtful to his client, it’s hurtful to his reputation. And that’s your irrespective of what the truth is or isn’t and to me it just is such a slippery slide from where he was to where he is now. And why, he even, quipping says this is going to be on my gravestone, I think he even recognizes that.
Brooke Baldwin: I want to come back to that in just a second, but Paul, even to me, that the part of the New Yorker piece about the tapes, no there weren’t tapes. Oh wait, I did listen to the tapes, but they weren’t on that thing, they were on something else. You know, do you think all of this is strategy or is he just going rogue?
Paul Callan: It can’t possibly be strategy because a lawyer, particularly a lawyer for a politician like the President, is trained about messaging and about staying with the message, and there’s a message about a criminal case. Once you decide on a criminal investigation once you decide how to handle the defense that you’re going to articulate for your client, you stay with that, you don’t change the story repeatedly. Why? Because it makes you look like an idiot and it also makes your client look like a liar. I think that Giuliani has morphed into professor Richard Cory. Now, I don’t know if you remember him, but he was a standup comic in the late sixties, whose schtick was he would speak in total confusion. He would sound like a professor but that was the way he operated, and every time Giuliani opens his mouth, he causes more and more confusion about the case. It’s really astounding.
Brooke Baldwin: You mention the grave site
Paul Callan: By the way, it’s Irwin Coreg not Richard Cory.
Brooke Baldwin: The New Yorker interview, you mentioned the gravestone. So, Rudy Giuliani was asked about his legacy and so he tells CNN he was joking, that’s the clarification since this came out. He said he was joking when he said the word on his gravestone might read, he lied for Trump. Giuliani said his focus is on quote making sure the President is on terra firmer, legally in trying to understand the political waters. Do you think his comments are more for Congress? Maybe the Republicans is this for?
Robert Bianchi: It doesn’t make a difference; the fact of the matter is that he keeps changing the goal posts and I’m going to tell you why. The question should be as a prosecutor, this is how I would be looking at it, why did Michael Cohen lie to Congress about these conversations with the Trump Moscow having ended in June? There’s a reason for that, they were concerned about that, because it goes to potential collusion, and that’s a legal issue, it goes to the President saying, he had no business dealings to the public and that’s a just a public perception reason. But they felt it was important enough to take this step to lie to Congress about it, and now what’s happening is they’re changing the goal post. Maybe it was October, maybe it was November, maybe it was afterwards, maybe it was beforehand. Because more evidence is coming out to show that their previous statements were inaccurate, if this were in a court of law Paul, you know this, a prosecutor, the reporters aren’t even cross-examining Giuliani and he’s all over the place all over the place.
Brooke Baldwin: But why is he all over the place? Shouldn’t he have all this zipped up for Mueller and get all the facts straight?
Robert Bianchi: They’re changing the story as the evidence comes out to contradict their previous story, that is what a judge would say at the end of the case. If the statements are inconsistent and it’s not an innocent inconsistency you can assume that there’s a reason, they’re covering it up and can use that as a motive as to why they’re lying, and they may be lying in order to cover up that relationship. So, the more texts that come out, the more witnesses like Cohen that comes out, the more data the comes out, that disputes a previous account, well now we got to move the goal post.
Paul Callan: Here’s the thing I think that’s the most astounding, Giuliani and other lawyers for the President were involved in submitting answers to Mueller on behalf of the President.
Brooke Baldwin: That’s what I’m saying, why wouldn’t their version of facts already be out there?
Paul Callan: You would be locked into that version completely, instead you have Giuliani saying, well the President said this, the President said that. And then Giuliani says, well I was only talking hypothetically. Well, how do you talk hypothetically about conversations you had with the President of the United States?
Brooke Baldwin: How often do lawyers speak hypothetically?
Robert Bianchi: Brooke, that’s a great point. And to Paul’s point a moment ago, if you’re going to go out into the court of public opinion, and there are reasons sometimes for lawyers to do it. Button those facts down, so that they’re unassailable, that they cannot be attacked. So, there’s confidence in what you’re saying, and if you don’t do that, all you’re doing is putting your claim more pro because those statements can potentially be used as adoptive admissions.
Brooke Baldwin: They’re missing buttons. Bob and Paul, thank you guys.
Paul Callan: Thank you.
Brooke Baldwin: Good to see you all.